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Archive 2010 · 85 1.2 AI Servo or One Shot?

docnlaw24
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p.1 #1 · 85 1.2 AI Servo or One Shot?

Recently acquired this classic lens and looking to get the best out of it. One shot AF seems to give me the best results(very sharp). AI Servo seems to miss the focus when wide open. Shooting with original 5D and 1d Mark 2n, both seem to show similar improvement with one shot (shooting portraits). Thanks for any additional tricks you might have regarding this hunk of glass.

Feb 09, 2010 at 12:18 AM

mttran
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p.1 #2 · 85 1.2 AI Servo or One Shot?

1dseries AI servo AF @ f1.8 or larger - works great with all AF points. I have always used 5Ds for 1 shots AF, i don't trust 5D's outer points.

Feb 09, 2010 at 12:51 AM

Zara
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p.1 #3 · 85 1.2 AI Servo or One Shot?

5d, center point, AI servo with focus on the * button for me.

Feb 09, 2010 at 01:08 AM

docnlaw24
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p.1 #4 · 85 1.2 AI Servo or One Shot?

mttran wrote:
1dseries AI servo AF @ f1.8 or larger - works great with all AF points. I have always used 5Ds for 1 shots AF, i don't trust 5D's outer points.

so, do you avoid AI even on the 1 series wide open with 85L?

Edited on Feb 09, 2010 at 01:14 AM · View previous versions

Feb 09, 2010 at 01:12 AM

docnlaw24
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p.1 #5 · 85 1.2 AI Servo or One Shot?

Zara wrote:
5d, center point, AI servo with focus on the * button for me.

Always use * for AF, but AI servo still couldn't handle the 85 wide open. One shot seemed to be much better though.

Feb 09, 2010 at 01:13 AM

shaunmlavery
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p.1 #6 · 85 1.2 AI Servo or One Shot?

If you are shooting at 1.2, one shot is fine but once it has "acquired focus" you better be still or your focus is going to be off.

The best thing to do is shoot a bunch with that lens. I just sold mine and dropped it of at fedex today but it it is a wonderful tool. You have to learn your lens. Mine was sharpest from 1.6 on. If a friend wanted to try out my 85L, no problem but they always seem to struggle with it. You really have to shoot with to get the feel for it.

The biggest help to me was to put a EE-S screen in my 5D and manual focus. This is how I shot my 85L probably 90% of the time. Again, once you get used to that, it is no problem. I had alott more keepers than trying to let the camera/lens hunt for AF, esp. in a dark environment.

Good Luck with your new lens. It is a really nice piece of glass.

Feb 09, 2010 at 01:14 AM

Andre Goli
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p.1 #7 · 85 1.2 AI Servo or One Shot?

5D : One shot... awful with AI SERVO

Feb 09, 2010 at 01:19 AM

cogitech
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p.1 #8 · 85 1.2 AI Servo or One Shot?

There's a switch on the side of the lens labeled "MF-AF". For best results, switch it to "MF".

You will be best served by first purchasing and installing a high precision focusing screen for your camera, as Shaun suggested.

Edited on Feb 09, 2010 at 01:21 AM · View previous versions

Feb 09, 2010 at 01:20 AM

docnlaw24
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p.1 #9 · 85 1.2 AI Servo or One Shot?

Thanks Shaun. Look forward to learning from this lens. My 135 was a lot easier to master!

Feb 09, 2010 at 01:20 AM

Russ Isabella
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p.1 #10 · 85 1.2 AI Servo or One Shot?

AI Servo just introduces another potential source of error as the camera is trying to track focus when that's not necessary for what you're shooting. One-shot is the way to go unless you are compelled to rely on manual focus. AI Servo was not intended for the application you have described (unless your subject is moving and I just missed that in your OP).

Feb 09, 2010 at 01:23 AM

RobertLynn
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p.1 #11 · 85 1.2 AI Servo or One Shot?

+12 to what Russ says. Especially regarding that lens.

Feb 09, 2010 at 01:24 AM

docnlaw24
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p.1 #12 · 85 1.2 AI Servo or One Shot?

Russ Isabella wrote:
AI Servo just introduces another potential source of error as the camera is trying to track focus when that's not necessary for what you're shooting. One-shot is the way to go unless you are compelled to rely on manual focus. AI Servo was not intended for the application you have described (unless your subject is moving and I just missed that in your OP).

Thanks Russ. Let me know how your Mk IV works with the 85L wide open. The kids are always moving even when told to "Stay still!"

Edited on Feb 09, 2010 at 01:26 AM · View previous versions

Feb 09, 2010 at 01:25 AM

cogitech
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p.1 #13 · 85 1.2 AI Servo or One Shot?

Zara wrote:
5d, center point, AI servo with focus on the * button for me.

Your compositions must suffer terribly.

Feb 09, 2010 at 01:25 AM

cogitech
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p.1 #14 · 85 1.2 AI Servo or One Shot?

docnlaw24 wrote:
Russ Isabella wrote:
AI Servo just introduces another potential source of error as the camera is trying to track focus when that's not necessary for what you're shooting. One-shot is the way to go unless you are compelled to rely on manual focus. AI Servo was not intended for the application you have described (unless your subject is moving and I just missed that in your OP).

The kids are always moving even when told to "Stay still!"

MF + EE-S + focus bracketing. No problemo. And your compositions won't suck.

Feb 09, 2010 at 01:26 AM

Zara
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p.1 #15 · 85 1.2 AI Servo or One Shot?

docnlaw24 wrote:
Always use * for AF, but AI servo still couldn't handle the 85 wide open. One shot seemed to be much better though.

I use One Shot when I need AF Assist from my 580EX - have tried it in broad daylight as well, though it didn't seem to improve my keeper rate. If in AI Servo, you'll hear the lens doing tiny little adjustments as you or your subject sway back and forth. One shot will not even register those so either way you're not going to get an f/2.8 keeper rate at f/1.2

Russ Isabella wrote:
AI Servo just introduces another potential source of error as the camera is trying to track focus when that's not necessary for what you're shooting. One-shot is the way to go unless you are compelled to rely on manual focus. AI Servo was not intended for the application you have described (unless your subject is moving and I just missed that in your OP).

AI Servo may not be intended for stationary subjects, but when there is no movement to predict because there is none, it will not predict any movement either. On the other hand, with the 85L wide open, there is constant movement in the form of your natural swaying back and forth unless you are shooting from a tripod. I find AI servo seems to help me here, but then maybe the root cause is all that beer I drink before noon.

cogitech wrote:
Your compositions must suffer terribly.

No, not really. At least not because of the AF

I have an Ee-S for the alt lenses I shoot, and I use MF on the 85L when shooting completely stationary subjects which is seldom. It does help immensely when double-checking AF accuracy through the viewfinder though.

I'm using focus recompose most of the time, except for moving subjects where I'll crop in post. Before I hear all the comments on how bad focus recompose is, take a DoF calculator, work in the numbers for general head&shoulder or full body shots on a 5D/85L and then realize that for most real world shooting scenarios it's not the issue it's made up to be.

Feb 09, 2010 at 01:40 AM

cogitech
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p.1 #16 · 85 1.2 AI Servo or One Shot?

markle wrote:
whoever suggested that MF must have a very little experience with that lens (or none).

85mm f1.2, 5D, Ee-S, manual focus, hand held. I do it all the time.

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No experience?

Apparently you have no idea.

Edited on Feb 09, 2010 at 03:44 AM · View previous versions

Feb 09, 2010 at 03:40 AM

helimat
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p.1 #17 · 85 1.2 AI Servo or One Shot?

Paul, please keep in mind that:

a) You are a far better at manual focusing than most photographers.

b) The 85/1.2 you were shooting with has a proper focus ring.

cogitech wrote:
Zara wrote:
5d, center point, AI servo with focus on the * button for me.

Your compositions must suffer terribly.

True, but the outer points on the 5D series suck balls. Focus recompose is in order for AF with the 85L & 5D.

Feb 09, 2010 at 03:43 AM

Hrow
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p.1 #18 · 85 1.2 AI Servo or One Shot?

Shooting wide open, on a tripod, with a stationary subject, then one shot works great. If you are hand holding it then Servo helps take care of the body sway. That said, MFing it is the way I go most of the time and do a focus bracket.

Feb 09, 2010 at 03:49 AM

kakomu
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p.1 #19 · 85 1.2 AI Servo or One Shot?

helimat wrote:
Paul, please keep in mind that:

a) You are a far better at manual focusing than most photographers.

It doesn't take too much practice to become decent at manually focusing.

Feb 09, 2010 at 03:49 AM

cogitech
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p.1 #20 · 85 1.2 AI Servo or One Shot?

Mat. Thanks.

So why do you suppose that some cretin needs to insult my intelligence and skill by insinuating that I have no experience?

All I am doing is presenting my perspective, after many years of shooting plenty of ultra-fast glass with both AF and MF. Some numbskull who hasn't even tried MF has the audacity to accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about?

Markle, you're a simpleton.

Edited on Feb 09, 2010 at 03:54 AM · View previous versions

Feb 09, 2010 at 03:52 AM

cogitech
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p.1 #21 · 85 1.2 AI Servo or One Shot?

helimat wrote:

True, but the outer points on the 5D series suck balls. Focus recompose is in order for AF with the 85L & 5D.

With AF, yes. It is his only option. But that is not the only option, as you well know.

Feb 09, 2010 at 03:54 AM

helimat
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p.1 #22 · 85 1.2 AI Servo or One Shot?

kakomu wrote:
helimat wrote:
Paul, please keep in mind that:

a) You are a far better at manual focusing than most photographers.

It doesn't take too much practice to become decent at manually focusing.

Thanks for the patronizing comment. I am familiar with manual focusing, and even consider myself decent at it. But I consider Paul very, very good at it. This isn't an assumption based on viewing a couple of photos, I have seen hundreds of his, many in very difficult situations. A lot of people would find it very difficult to go from never manually focusing to getting razor sharp manually focused images at f/1.2 in the dark.

Feb 09, 2010 at 03:55 AM

cogitech
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p.1 #23 · 85 1.2 AI Servo or One Shot?

kakomu wrote:
helimat wrote:
Paul, please keep in mind that:

a) You are a far better at manual focusing than most photographers.

It doesn't take too much practice to become decent at manually focusing.

That's what I keep trying to tell people.

Spread the word, brother!

But, alas, we live in a lazy damned world...

Feb 09, 2010 at 03:56 AM

helimat
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p.1 #24 · 85 1.2 AI Servo or One Shot?

cogitech wrote:
Mat. Thanks.

So why do you suppose that some cretin needs to insult my intelligence and skill by insinuating that I have no experience?

At the risk of sounding elitist, that may be why 95% of our posts are in another section of FM.

Feb 09, 2010 at 03:57 AM

cogitech
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p.1 #25 · 85 1.2 AI Servo or One Shot?

helimat wrote:
kakomu wrote:
helimat wrote:
Paul, please keep in mind that:

a) You are a far better at manual focusing than most photographers.

It doesn't take too much practice to become decent at manually focusing.

Thanks for the patronizing comment. I am familiar with manual focusing, and even consider myself decent at it. But I consider Paul very, very good at it. This isn't an assumption based on viewing a couple of photos, I have seen hundreds of his, many in very difficult situations. A lot of people would find it very difficult to go from never manually focusing to getting razor sharp manually focused images at f/1.2 in the dark.

Mat, I think kakomu was just trying to help provide some inspiration and confidence to those who may feel MF is too difficult.

When I started, I found it challenging. I just forced myself to persevere and it has paid off, big time. Just like most things in life.

So, "easy"? Maybe not. Possible? Maybe more so than people would first think.

Feb 09, 2010 at 03:59 AM


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