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Archive 2010 · my Tokina 11-16... keeper, or not?
  
 
moonpeep
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p.1 #1 · my Tokina 11-16... keeper, or not?


Having a hard time deciding on this one.

My images......

Manual focusing on a sturdy tripod. Used live view to achieve best focus.
Camera is Rebel T1i (500d)
No processing. In camera sharpness set at 3. (other settings not modified)
All images were shot as raw, and saved as high quality jpegs.
Basically... trying to figure out what quality this lens is. Need something that is going to maintain resale value. (ie; sharp copy without any noteworthy compromises) Unfortunately this is just the third lens I've bought, so not a large number of comparisons I can make. Your feedback is appreciated.

Sample image: (11mm, F5.6)


This image is copyrighted by the owner





More tests:

11mm, F5.6, 1/160, 200ISO

Full:
link

Center:
link

Top left:
link

Bottom left:
link

Top right:
link

Edited on Feb 07, 2010 at 02:58 AM · View previous versions

Feb 07, 2010 at 02:34 AM
moonpeep
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p.1 #2 · my Tokina 11-16... keeper, or not?


More tests:

16mm, F2.8, 1/400, ISO200
(note: probably over exposed this a bit)

Full:
link

Center:
link

Top right corner:
link

Bottom left corner:
link

Notes... again, bottom left seems weaker...

Edited on Feb 07, 2010 at 02:59 AM · View previous versions

Feb 07, 2010 at 02:35 AM
moonpeep
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p.1 #3 · my Tokina 11-16... keeper, or not?


(just about done)

For perspective... here is another lens I own. Canon EFS 18-155 IS (3.5-5.6) kit lens...

18mm, 1/160, 5.6, ISO200

Unfortunately I did not keep perspective quite right... this shot being closer. Not the most fair comparison, I know. (closer up we'll be able to see more details in bricks)

Full:
link

Center: (100% crop)
link

Sample corner: (100% crop)
link

Edited on Feb 07, 2010 at 03:00 AM · View previous versions

Feb 07, 2010 at 02:36 AM
moonpeep
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p.1 #4 · my Tokina 11-16... keeper, or not?


Test shots:
16mm, F5.6, 1/160, ISO200 below:

Center: (100% crop)
link

Left top corner: (100% crop)
link

Right top corner: (100% crop)
link

Left bottom corner: (100% crop)
link

Right bottom corner: (100% crop)
link






Edited on Feb 07, 2010 at 03:00 AM · View previous versions

Feb 07, 2010 at 02:37 AM
moonpeep
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p.1 #5 · my Tokina 11-16... keeper, or not?


Conclusions...

Bottom... specifically left bottom corner... seems to be weakest link.

Gets better with higher aperture numbers, though, which is to be expected.

Not sure, though, if those bricks, overall, are softer than they ought to be.

I have to take into consideration my lack of processes and sharpening set at 3... don't know what I'm up against in other photos I analyze.

Few more tests by other folks:

http://www.pbase.com/zzubby/tokina_1116_f_28_test_and_review
http://sportsphotoguy.com/first-look-tokina-11-16f28-at-x-pro-dx/
http://www.pbase.com/lightrules/1022v1116

Feb 07, 2010 at 02:43 AM
omarlyn
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p.1 #6 · my Tokina 11-16... keeper, or not?


A few comments: your comparison test are completely invalid as the focal lengths are different. As for the Tokina, it looks fine to me. BTW, your brick wall shots are not lined up perfectly parallel...so those 'tests' are also invalid. Still, from what I can see, it looks fine. (OBTW) I used to own one too.

Also, in camera sharpness setting has no effect on RAW images.

HTH,
Omar

Feb 07, 2010 at 02:45 AM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #7 · my Tokina 11-16... keeper, or not?


I like mine, it seems really sharp, haven't tested it, though, just shot photos. Watch the flare, though. I just use my hand to block the sun. You get a bit of distortion, which the program DxO ( I think that's the name of the program) is supposed to be really good at fixing. Hasn't been noticable most of the time, though. The pros IMO are sharpness and the 2.8 speed. the distortion level is quite acceptable and fixable in computer. Mine isn't for sale! didn't

Feb 07, 2010 at 02:48 AM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #8 · my Tokina 11-16... keeper, or not?


I like mine, it seems really sharp, haven't tested it, though, just shot photos. Watch the flare, though. I just use my hand to block the sun. You get a bit of distortion, which the program DxO ( I think that's the name of the program) is supposed to be really good at fixing. Hasn't been noticable most of the time, though. The pros IMO are sharpness and the 2.8 speed. the distortion level is quite acceptable and fixable in computer. Mine isn't for sale! didn't have

Feb 07, 2010 at 02:48 AM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #9 · my Tokina 11-16... keeper, or not?


I like mine, it seems really sharp, haven't tested it, though, just shot photos. Watch the flare, though. I just use my hand to block the sun. You get a bit of distortion, which the program DxO ( I think that's the name of the program) is supposed to be really good at fixing. Hasn't been noticable most of the time, though. The pros IMO are sharpness and the 2.8 speed. the distortion level is quite acceptable and fixable in computer. Mine isn't for sale! didn't have time

Feb 07, 2010 at 02:48 AM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #10 · my Tokina 11-16... keeper, or not?


I like mine, it seems really sharp, haven't tested it, though, just shot photos. Watch the flare, though. I just use my hand to block the sun. You get a bit of distortion, which the program DxO ( I think that's the name of the program) is supposed to be really good at fixing. Hasn't been noticable most of the time, though. The pros IMO are sharpness and the 2.8 speed. the distortion level is quite acceptable and fixable in computer. Mine isn't for sale! didn't have time to

Feb 07, 2010 at 02:48 AM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #11 · my Tokina 11-16... keeper, or not?


I like mine, it seems really sharp, haven't tested it, though, just shot photos. Watch the flare, though. I just use my hand to block the sun. You get a bit of distortion, which the program DxO ( I think that's the name of the program) is supposed to be really good at fixing. Hasn't been noticable most of the time, though. The pros IMO are sharpness and the 2.8 speed. the distortion level is quite acceptable and fixable in computer. Mine isn't for sale! didn't have time to look

Feb 07, 2010 at 02:48 AM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #12 · my Tokina 11-16... keeper, or not?


I like mine, it seems really sharp, haven't tested it, though, just shot photos. Watch the flare, though. I just use my hand to block the sun. You get a bit of distortion, which the program DxO ( I think that's the name of the program) is supposed to be really good at fixing. Hasn't been noticable most of the time, though. The pros IMO are sharpness and the 2.8 speed. the distortion level is quite acceptable and fixable in computer. Mine isn't for sale! didn't have time to look at

Feb 07, 2010 at 02:48 AM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #13 · my Tokina 11-16... keeper, or not?


I like mine, it seems really sharp, haven't tested it, though, just shot photos. Watch the flare, though. I just use my hand to block the sun. You get a bit of distortion, which the program DxO ( I think that's the name of the program) is supposed to be really good at fixing. Hasn't been noticable most of the time, though. The pros IMO are sharpness and the 2.8 speed. the distortion level is quite acceptable and fixable in computer. Mine isn't for sale! didn't have time to look at photos

Feb 07, 2010 at 02:48 AM
 



kewlcanon
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p.1 #14 · my Tokina 11-16... keeper, or not?


Wow Mike you really really like your Tokina don't you ?

Feb 07, 2010 at 02:53 AM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #15 · my Tokina 11-16... keeper, or not?


What did this thing do? Any way to delete all these posts? I am on a slow connection, tried to add something, and it added a new post for every word!

What I was trying to say is that I was on a slow connection and I didn't wait for the photos to download. I bought mine after reading Ken Rockwell's review on his site. Unless you got a bad copy, should be a great lens.

Feb 07, 2010 at 02:55 AM
moonpeep
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p.1 #16 · my Tokina 11-16... keeper, or not?


yeah, that'd make sense, from a comparison perspective.

Turned into more of a series of tests for different focal length/apertures.

About my only significant discovery is that my bottom left corner -- to a lesser extent -- the right... seems a bit softer than the top. Though that's not really a show-stopper, I don't think.

Have been picking apart the lens a bit as I have trip in which I'll be using it quite a bit... and past the window of return.

(wish I had a bit more experience with this sort of thing so I didn't have to bug you guys)

Feb 07, 2010 at 02:56 AM
moonpeep
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p.1 #17 · my Tokina 11-16... keeper, or not?


Let me see if I can't turn these images into URLs. Didn't know they'd automatically show as images. This does make the page load a little too long.

Feb 07, 2010 at 02:57 AM
timpdx
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p.1 #18 · my Tokina 11-16... keeper, or not?


one of the points of this thread should not be to show the weaknesses of the Tokina, but to show *how good a performer the 18-55IS is*

It really is a little marvel of engineering that so many here on FM seem to disparage. My copy is amazingly sharp, many others have reported the same. Don't knock the IS kit lens.

On the Tokina, looks good to me, I would keep it. I am sorry I sold mine, but I just have too much duplication in the wide angle category, the 11-16 is a great lens.

Feb 07, 2010 at 03:36 AM
moonpeep
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p.1 #19 · my Tokina 11-16... keeper, or not?


timpdx wrote:
one of the points of this thread should not be to show the weaknesses of the Tokina, but to show *how good a performer the 18-55IS is*

It really is a little marvel of engineering that so many here on FM seem to disparage. My copy is amazingly sharp, many others have reported the same. Don't knock the IS kit lens.

On the Tokina, looks good to me, I would keep it. I am sorry I sold mine, but I just have too much duplication in the wide angle category, the 11-16 is a great lens.

Yeah, resolution tests I've seen say this is a great performer... (would put up numbers like the tokina, I think, according to photozone.de) I just wish it had a manual focus ring. I've gotten some really sharp photos out of it.
Feb 07, 2010 at 03:39 AM
omarlyn
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p.1 #20 · my Tokina 11-16... keeper, or not?


moonpeep wrote:
...About my only significant discovery is that my bottom left corner -- to a lesser extent -- the right... seems a bit softer than the top.

Keep in mind what I said in my earlier response...your 'brick wall test shots' are not alligned square & parallel. In other words, your focus-plane & subject-plane are not parallel to each other...hence each corner is at a slightly different distance to the sensor plane which on extreme wide angle can make a very big difference in focus.

HTH,
Omar




Feb 07, 2010 at 03:43 AM
moonpeep
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p.1 #21 · my Tokina 11-16... keeper, or not?


omarlyn wrote:
moonpeep wrote:
...About my only significant discovery is that my bottom left corner -- to a lesser extent -- the right... seems a bit softer than the top.

Keep in mind what I said in my earlier response...your 'brick wall test shots' are not alligned square & parallel. In other words, your focus-plane & subject-plane are not parallel to each other...hence each corner is at a slightly different distance to the sensor plane which on extreme wide angle can make a very big difference in focus.

HTH,
Omar



Ah, you are right.... (noticing lines in bricks compared to composition of frame, not parallel -- assume this is what you speak of)

Didn't think of that affecting such a thing.

I'll try to get a few better shots today.

There's a fellow over on another forum (don't know if we can mention here, it's a big review site) that says he went through 5 copies that he deemed bad because of the brick test. He saw mine and said to return. However... he didn't mentioned the consideration you just did. So this makes me wonder. Perhaps he was making this mistake as well.


Feb 07, 2010 at 04:46 PM
moonpeep
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p.1 #22 · my Tokina 11-16... keeper, or not?


omarlyn wrote:

Also, in camera sharpness setting has no effect on RAW images.



Didn't know this. I used the program provided with my camera that allows editing of raws. At any rate, whenever I import raws their sharpness is set to 3... corresponding to my in camera setting.

So the images were saved with that setting...

Feb 07, 2010 at 11:03 PM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #23 · my Tokina 11-16... keeper, or not?


Kewlcanon: Yep!

There is only one plane of focus, but depth of field at 11mm is VERY wide, so even if you were a little crooked, perhaps should be covered, even at f/5.6. At 16 it would probably need to be straight.

Remeber RAW is compressed, but much less than JPEG, so I try to shoot it how I want it. If you doubt this look at file sizes and 1. how small they are 2. how they vary. Uncompressed they wouldn't vary. File sizes average about 13 meg with my 40D. But I don't think sharpness settings would affect things much. But I could be wrong.

AF is iffy, I wonder if some bad reviews come from poor focus. I use live view and zoom in to 10x. Makes little difference how good the lens is if it isn't focused.



Feb 09, 2010 at 05:03 PM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #24 · my Tokina 11-16... keeper, or not?


One more thing: +1 on the 18-55 being a good performer. BEFORE i dropped it

Feb 09, 2010 at 05:05 PM
SloPhoto
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p.1 #25 · my Tokina 11-16... keeper, or not?


AmbientMike wrote:
Kewlcanon: Yep!

There is only one plane of focus, but depth of field at 11mm is VERY wide, so even if you were a little crooked, perhaps should be covered, even at f/5.6. At 16 it would probably need to be straight.

Remeber RAW is compressed, but much less than JPEG, so I try to shoot it how I want it. If you doubt this look at file sizes and 1. how small they are 2. how they vary. Uncompressed they wouldn't vary. File sizes average about 13 meg with my 40D. But I don't think sharpness settings would affect things much. But I could be wrong.

AF is iffy, I wonder if some bad reviews come from poor focus. I use live view and zoom in to 10x. Makes little difference how good the lens is if it isn't focused.




They are losslessly compressed. This means there is no degradation of the file during the process. It is 100% identical to the original after being read/uncompressed.


Ohh, and even though the tests are a bit odd. On a quick glance, my copy is far sharper.

Feb 09, 2010 at 05:09 PM




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