ExpoDisc (Worth It or Not Worth It)

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Archive 2010 · ExpoDisc (Worth It or Not Worth It)

ultimateguru
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p.1 #1 · ExpoDisc (Worth It or Not Worth It)

I have been looking at the ExpoDisc for setting up my custom white balance. I wanted to get some feedback on it from photographers that use it or have used it before.

1. Do you use one?
2. Is it worth the money?
3. Does it have any advantages over a white or grey card?
4. Which one to buy Neutral or Portait for sports. I am assuming Neutral.

I do mostly indoor sports. I read that you put it on your lens and aim it directly at the light source snap the pic and set your WB to that image. Is that an advantage to putting a white card on the floor and snapping the pic?

I noticed that alot have been sold on here and wondering if that is because they are not worth it or do not work well.

Thanks in advance.

Jan 12, 2010 at 12:43 AM

well69
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p.1 #2 · ExpoDisc (Worth It or Not Worth It)

I'm kinda curious about this too...

Jan 12, 2010 at 02:15 PM

george malamis
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p.1 #3 · ExpoDisc (Worth It or Not Worth It)

I like the expodisc for the consitancy that it brings to my photographs. If you're shooting raw, adjusting the temp and tint can get you there too, but in my experience the expodisc gets me closer initially and I can choose to warm things up or cool things down if I want to make corrections. The proper way to use the expodisc is to stand in the spot where your subject will be, point your camera back to your shooting position and make an exposure with the expodisc on to capture the light falling on the subject in order to make a custom white balance. Where you have access to the shooting location, the expodisc works great but if you are at an event in which you do not have access to such as a sporting event where you're not allowed on the court for example, the expodisc or the various other targets will not work. The lallycap is like a shower cap that fits over your lens and can take a custom white balance just by being pointed at the scene. I don't have first hand experience with it but from reviews I have seen it renders the white balance a little cool. There are a lot of tools for custom white balance, check out what is available and what suits your application.

Jan 12, 2010 at 04:41 PM

millsart
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p.1 #4 · ExpoDisc (Worth It or Not Worth It)

I found it largely worthless for most indoor sports because of the cycling lights. It can help you set the right WB for a particular moment in the lights cycle, but unless you fire every frame during that point in the cycle your WB is still going to have the typcal red/green shifts.

Also what I found rather annoying about it was that since they don't make on big enough for a lens like a 300 or 400mm, you then have to put on a shorter lens on your camera, do the WB, then switch your lens back to what you wanted to shoot with. Doesn't sound like a big pain at first, but when your shooting outdoors and the light is changing during the game from clouds moving etc, it becomes annoying IMHO

Honestly in most venues I shoot anymore, the AWB on the Nikon D3 is about as good as I can get it using any other means.

I certainly don't bother with even dialing in a custom WB setting 99% of the places I shoot, and I shoot RAW anyways under difficult mixed lighting situations

Jan 12, 2010 at 05:42 PM

aborr
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p.1 #5 · ExpoDisc (Worth It or Not Worth It)

I am trying to get into the habit of shooting a frame that includes a small gray card at the beginning of each shoot. Seems to me that it's less hassle than fussing with something like the expodisc.

Al

Jan 12, 2010 at 10:41 PM

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p.1 #6 · ExpoDisc (Worth It or Not Worth It)

I own and use the EXPO DISC and find it useful. Also keep in mind that the EXPO DISC is calibrated to measure "EXPOSURE", hense the name EXPO DISC. It makes your camera act as an incident light meter. Like most things in life, one method may not be perfect under all conditions, so using a color checker and gray scale can also offer a sanity check.

Jan 12, 2010 at 11:51 PM

ken.vs.ryu
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p.1 #7 · ExpoDisc (Worth It or Not Worth It)

gray cards are $1.

Jan 13, 2010 at 01:15 AM

Lance Lee
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p.1 #8 · ExpoDisc (Worth It or Not Worth It)

I don't think there is anything special with the Expodisc, but I do think it is a good practice to use some kind of proper white balance card/tool when you have the chance. I find it very helpful to see what the "correct" WB is in different situations.

I put "correct" in quotes because I often find that the correct WB is not my favourite WB, I think of it as more of a colour cast removal tool.

Lastly, it is very important to use a proper WB device, not a traditional grey card. WB card, Expodisc, WhiBal, etc. Using a grey card is like trying to use a flashmeter to set WB, neither are designed for WB, they are designed for exposure. It is unfortunate that grey cards are grey, it is just so tempting to use them for WB. Personally I use the excellent and inexpensive WB card sold by Robin Myers.

Jan 13, 2010 at 01:27 AM

millsart
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p.1 #9 · ExpoDisc (Worth It or Not Worth It)

aborr wrote:
I am trying to get into the habit of shooting a frame that includes a small gray card at the beginning of each shoot. Seems to me that it's less hassle than fussing with something like the expodisc.

Al

That certainly works well, and if you use a RAW software with an eyedropper tool its as easy as clicking on that for setting the correct WB, HOWEVER, this only works if the lighting doesn't change.

Start at shoot at 3pm on an overcast day and if by 4pm the clouds break, next thing you know your WB is thrown off. As such, its important to remember to reshoot your gray card at halftime, when you move the model to a new lcoation etc

Jan 13, 2010 at 03:07 AM

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p.1 #10 · ExpoDisc (Worth It or Not Worth It)

As louhand alluded to, the ExpoDisc is used to measure INCIDENT light. So the question is, for the type of shooting that you do, can you measure the incident light? What I found is that most of the time, I can't measure the incident light (for example when shooting rock shows, I'm not permitted on stage, so the ExpoDisc is of no use and even if I could get on stage, the light changes all the time anyway.)

ken.vs.ryu mentioned a gray card, but the purpose of grey card is to measure REFLECTED light.

What I find is that I'm able to use the gray card more often than I'm able to use the ExpoDisc. If I had it to do all over again, I probably would NOT have invested in the ExpoDisc. Also, even using the grey card to perform a custom white balance on my camera, I sometimes find that the auto white balance actually does a better job. And while it's always nice to get it right in the camera, you can always adjust this all in post-processing anyway.

Jan 13, 2010 at 03:45 AM

aborr
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p.1 #11 · ExpoDisc (Worth It or Not Worth It)

millsart wrote:
aborr wrote:
I am trying to get into the habit of shooting a frame that includes a small gray card at the beginning of each shoot. Seems to me that it's less hassle than fussing with something like the expodisc.

Al

That certainly works well, and if you use a RAW software with an eyedropper tool its as easy as clicking on that for setting the correct WB, HOWEVER, this only works if the lighting doesn't change.

Start at shoot at 3pm on an overcast day and if by 4pm the clouds break, next thing you know your WB is thrown off. As such, its important to remember to reshoot your gray card at halftime, when you move the model to a new lcoation etc

I photograph a lot of (outdoor) horse shows. I use a WhiBal gray card before every class/event (about once every hour or so). Horses are problematic in that the color of their coat varies depending on how the light hits them, as well as changing when the color temperature of the light illiuminating them changes. I shoot raw, and in PP, I do one color correction for all the images from a single class. It doesn't result in perfectly uniform color, but at least the same horse appears more or less the same color in images taken at different points during the day.

Jan 13, 2010 at 04:03 AM

ESC in KC
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p.1 #12 · ExpoDisc (Worth It or Not Worth It)

Totally worth it for portraiture. I own one and use it for each new location when shooting outdor portraits. Takes a brief moment and saves a TON of time in post. Problem with gray cards - at least for me -- is that they can reflect light in different intensities based on angle to the lens and light. I stand where my subject is or will be, and shoot back to where I will be shooting from. By the time I walk to my shooting spot, I have the custom WB locked in and I'm ready to shoot. YMMV.

Jan 13, 2010 at 04:08 AM

hans98ko
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p.1 #13 · ExpoDisc (Worth It or Not Worth It)

millsart wrote:
I found it largely worthless for most indoor sports because of the cycling lights. It can help you set the right WB for a particular moment in the lights cycle, but unless you fire every frame during that point in the cycle your WB is still going to have the typcal red/green shifts.

Also what I found rather annoying about it was that since they don't make on big enough for a lens like a 300 or 400mm, you then have to put on a shorter lens on your camera, do the WB, then switch your lens back to what you wanted to shoot with. Doesn't sound like a big pain at first, but when your shooting outdoors and the light is changing during the game from clouds moving etc, it becomes annoying IMHO

Honestly in most venues I shoot anymore, the AWB on the Nikon D3 is about as good as I can get it using any other means.

I certainly don't bother with even dialing in a custom WB setting 99% of the places I shoot, and I shoot RAW anyways under difficult mixed lighting situations

Ever consider making one big enough for any consumer lens in the world with an old 40 watts circular fluorescent lamp cover?
Once in a while when changing the fluorescent lamp inside the white opaque lamp cover the plastic cover cracks. In order not to waste it and recycle the material I came out with the idea one day about a years ago to convert it to an expo disk. All one needs to do is use a cutter to cut around a circular mark drawn with a marker (leave some free area for expected cracking), than file it down to the exact circular shape with a metal file. This lamp cover are normally colour balance to represent daylight so is perfect for this application.
You see! Zero dollar and zero waste. 100% utilization and satisfaction.

And you are very right about the D3 or my D3x doing a very good job on the AWB, so the DIY expo disk only goes on my older Canon products.

Jan 13, 2010 at 05:57 AM

ultimateguru
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p.1 #14 · ExpoDisc (Worth It or Not Worth It)

Thanks for all of the information.
What I am trying to do is get my white balance set correctly for indoor volleyball. I currently use a Lastolite 12" white/18% grey. When I get to the gym I goto the court that we are playing on and put the Lastolight on the floor white side up in the middle hitter location (where my daughter plays) and set up my D90 white balance using Speed priority at 1/60th and use that image for the PRE. Is this correct? Should I use the grey side as zoetmb mentioned for reflective light?

Jan 13, 2010 at 12:49 PM

hans98ko
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p.1 #15 · ExpoDisc (Worth It or Not Worth It)

ultimateguru wrote:
Thanks for all of the information.
What I am trying to do is get my white balance set correctly for indoor volleyball. I currently use a Lastolite 12" white/18% grey. When I get to the gym I goto the court that we are playing on and put the Lastolight on the floor white side up in the middle hitter location (where my daughter plays) and set up my D90 white balance using Speed priority at 1/60th and use that image for the PRE. Is this correct? Should I use the grey side as zoetmb mentioned for reflective light?

If you are shooting at the same gym with the same lighting condition, all you need to do is to take a few pictures in RAW during one of their practise session and change the color temperature in DPP (I am assuming you are using Canon because Nikon can do quite a good job on AWB) to the one you think most represent the actual color, than set your color temperature on the camera for that condition when you need it. This will give you a very good starting point even though at time you still need to fine tune it.
Good luck with you shoot.

Jan 13, 2010 at 01:50 PM

Gregory.Rotter
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p.1 #16 · ExpoDisc (Worth It or Not Worth It)

hans98ko wrote:
ultimateguru wrote:
Thanks for all of the information.
What I am trying to do is get my white balance set correctly for indoor volleyball. I currently use a Lastolite 12" white/18% grey. When I get to the gym I goto the court that we are playing on and put the Lastolight on the floor white side up in the middle hitter location (where my daughter plays) and set up my D90 white balance using Speed priority at 1/60th and use that image for the PRE. Is this correct? Should I use the grey side as zoetmb mentioned for reflective light?

If you are shooting at the same gym with the same lighting condition, all you need to do is to take a few pictures in RAW during one of their practise session and change the color temperature in DPP (I am assuming you are using Canon because Nikon can do quite a good job on AWB) to the one you think most represent the actual color, than set your color temperature on the camera for that condition when you need it. This will give you a very good starting point even though at time you still need to fine tune it.
Good luck with you shoot.

He's using a D90.

Jan 13, 2010 at 01:57 PM

hans98ko
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p.1 #17 · ExpoDisc (Worth It or Not Worth It)

Gregory.Rotter wrote:
He's using a D90.
Oops!

Jan 13, 2010 at 02:05 PM

millsart
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p.1 #18 · ExpoDisc (Worth It or Not Worth It)

Do the lights cycle in this gym ? If so your always going to end up with color cast because there isn't any fixed white balance to set, the lights will cycle at 60hz and depending where in the cycle they are when you hit the shutter, your color shift is going to be made better or worse

In that type of situation its really best to just shoot RAW and adjust the keepers as needed

Jan 13, 2010 at 03:27 PM

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p.1 #19 · ExpoDisc (Worth It or Not Worth It)

Seems to me the ExpoDisc is handy when you can't get a grey card in the lighting you're trying to balance. Tom Hicks has examples of snakes inside enclosures - no way to get the grey card in there.

He perfected a DIY version called the Hickspodisk. A piece of 3M respirator material sandwiched between two filters. I made one and it worked well for me shooting indoor basketball, but not for hockey - I liked setting a CWB off the ice better. I don't have occasion to use it much anymore.

Anyway, Tom's old post from July 2005 on how to make it vanished, but not before I had made a pdf of it. Tom gave me permission to distribute it, so if anyone wants it, send me an email and I'll send it to you.

Here's a link to another 2005 thread that discusses the Hickspodisk, but the links are broken and it's not the true DIY post:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/253615/0

Mark

Jan 13, 2010 at 06:22 PM

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p.1 #20 · ExpoDisc (Worth It or Not Worth It)

millsart wrote:
Do the lights cycle in this gym ? If so your always going to end up with color cast because there isn't any fixed white balance to set, the lights will cycle at 60hz and depending where in the cycle they are when you hit the shutter, your color shift is going to be made better or worse

In that type of situation its really best to just shoot RAW and adjust the keepers as needed
It also helps to shoot at a shutter speed that is a multiple of the cycle. 1/60, 1/120, 1/200 (close enough to 1/180 in my experience), if at all possible.

This is obviously tricky with sports unless you have a hell of a lot of flash power, but it's a good little thing to keep in mind.

Jan 13, 2010 at 07:37 PM

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p.1 #21 · ExpoDisc (Worth It or Not Worth It)

gray cards designed for exposure settings are seldom neutral gray. use one for a portrait shoot and you will usually regret it.

Herb...

ken.vs.ryu wrote:
gray cards are $1.

Jan 14, 2010 at 06:59 PM

nilo4fm
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p.1 #22 · ExpoDisc (Worth It or Not Worth It)

Although I have the expodisc for a couple of years now, I only used it in few occasions. I was shooting mostly landscapes around sunrise or sunset and I was usually after vivid than accurate colors.
In one occasion I had the expodisc with and since I went for the sunset shot pretty early, I gave it a try in a nearby rock. The rock was forming a cave and this is the inside so there was no directional light from the sun.

shot with the nikon D300. I wasn't expecting such difference but the truth is that the expodisc gave an almost accurate result. There was no way I could remember the exact color few days later when I sat in front of my computer to check them out. I could have bring the same result with the autoWB (raw) but only if I was able to remember what the color looked like.

No pp here

2012 © nilo4fm

Jan 14, 2010 at 11:53 PM

nilo4fm
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p.1 #23 · ExpoDisc (Worth It or Not Worth It)

and a more recent example with the nikon d700.
The difference again is huge. And although none of the renderings is completely accurate the expodisc comes very close.

now the funny thing is that right in the next room from the one you see, i tried to take again a preset WB with the Expodisc, NO WAY. 4 times i tried and i was getting a "no good". The light, its true, was a mix from different sources and there was no way I could get my camera meter through the expodisc. Worse than that is something that I had not faced before.
After every false attempt I was returning to Auto WB, taking the shot and the shot was coming out all red. Even worse the camera was stucked to this red Auto WB and no matter what I was doing all my auto WB after that was coming out red. I tried everything (switching it off, taking the battery out...) could not make it. Finally in one last attempt it came back to normal.

To make a long story short, I retry to take a metering with the expodisc another 4 times. The exact same thing happen. I gave up. I continued in AUTO.

Here it is with no pp again.

2012 © nilo4fm

Jan 15, 2010 at 12:06 AM

ultimateguru
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p.1 #24 · ExpoDisc (Worth It or Not Worth It)

I did buy the Expodisc Neutral and used it this weekend at a volleyball tournament. It was nice to be able to set WB from the area I was shooting from and not have to try and get on the court with a white card. The colors turn out great, and that takes one step out of my post processing.

I wanted to post a pic of the difference but I deleted the pictures by mistake.

Anyway, thanks for all of your input and I will be at a couple of different gyms this week and will post a few auto vs custom vs expodisc.
Thanks again.

Jan 24, 2010 at 09:30 PM

John--G
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p.1 #25 · ExpoDisc (Worth It or Not Worth It)

millsart wrote:
Honestly in most venues I shoot anymore, the AWB on the Nikon D3 is about as good as I can get it using any other means.

Your D3 must be different than mine because on mine the AWB can't even cope with normal classroom fluorescent lighting. It's very frustrating because while the D3 has TONS of white balance presets, none of them ever seem to match any lighting I'm ever shooting in. :-)

I have not yet loaded the latest firmware release which I understand is supposed to help AWB.

Jan 25, 2010 at 03:40 PM


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